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Post by vardhamana on Oct 26, 2012 12:18:20 GMT -5
Please read the short essay attached, then answer the following questions: How might you challenge Pascal's analysis? Is God's existence really a 50/50 proposition? Is it true that belief in a God is enough to secure infinate rewards if God exists, or must one believe in the right God? If the latter, how does hat change the structure of the wager? Would a just God really reward someone who becomes a believer out of self-interest? Attachments:
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Post by Magic Omania on Oct 26, 2012 14:18:34 GMT -5
I find it in the clan's best interest to keep religion out of subject for the most part. This way we do not offend others and possibly cause harm to the clan. As such, I am locking this thread.
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Post by Little K-B on Oct 26, 2012 14:42:54 GMT -5
I find it in the clan's best interest to keep religion out of subject for the most part. This way we do not offend others and possibly cause harm to the clan. As such, I am locking this thread. The purpose of the thread is to get input from those with a general interest in the subject, whether it be controversial or not. If you find it offensive for some reason, then there's no need to post in it, or lock it  But to be short about it, "if you win, you win everything; if you lose, you lose nothing." Depends if you need to win, I guess  |
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Post by Magic Omania on Oct 26, 2012 14:58:32 GMT -5
Fine, I'll unlock the thread for now. But I do warn you; be careful what you say.
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Post by vardhamana on Oct 26, 2012 15:06:18 GMT -5
The question was what you think about Pascal's wager itself, and was not meant to offend anyone. I'm sorry if i did.
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Post by Little K-B on Oct 26, 2012 15:20:48 GMT -5
The question was what you think about Pascal's wager itself, and was not meant to offend anyone. I'm sorry if i did. I found it interesting, yet at the same time very creepy. The whole notion of gambling your life based on your beliefs is a very thin comparison imo, and it just doesn't translate as to why people believe or don't believe. |
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Post by vardhamana on Oct 26, 2012 15:42:18 GMT -5
He wasn't saying that that is why people believe or not, he was saying that if you are coming into it as an atheist, or agnostic at least, you should believe in God, because of the reasons he stated.
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Post by Little K-B on Oct 26, 2012 15:45:19 GMT -5
I find it in the clan's best interest to keep religion out of subject for the most part. This way we do not offend others and possibly cause harm to the clan. As such, I am locking this thread. The purpose of the thread is to get input from those with a general interest in the subject, whether it be controversial or not. If you find it offensive for some reason, then there's no need to post in it, or lock it But to be short about it, "if you win, you win everything; if you lose, you lose nothing." Depends if you need to win, I guess Well my earlier quote, still stands and pretty much encompasses what he was trying to say within a few words  |
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Post by Nytherinz on Oct 26, 2012 19:09:54 GMT -5
I don't believe in any god. I mean, sure there could be one. But if there is, he/she doesn't really care about us. If you look at the world today... But then the religious guys would say, "hes testing us". Well that's not good enough, I'm not going to worship somebody who lets these things happen. Everything is science for me, until I think about the universe and where it ends, as it is supposedly "infinite". There has to be an end, and there has to be a beginning. So idk what happened at the beginning of time, if there even was a beginning. All I know is that something happened and that maybe it was a god or something, nobody can be sure.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
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Post by Little K-B on Oct 26, 2012 19:34:45 GMT -5
I don't believe in any god. I mean, sure there could be one. But if there is, he/she doesn't really care about us. If you look at the world today... But then the religious guys would say, "hes testing us". Well that's not good enough, I'm not going to worship somebody who lets these things happen. Everything is science for me, until I think about the universe and where it ends, as it is supposedly "infinite". There has to be an end, and there has to be a beginning. So idk what happened at the beginning of time, if there even was a beginning. All I know is that something happened and that maybe it was a god or something, nobody can be sure. Sorry if I offended anyone. You bring up a good point there. I dont really understand how or why a supernatural being could create a universe and have total control over it, yet leave so many flaws in it at the same time. The Bible chalks it up to God giving man the freedom of will, mostly expressed with the story and Adam and Eve with Eve eating the apple etc, etc. But I just don't follow how it makes sense |
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Post by Revan on Oct 27, 2012 2:27:47 GMT -5
it doesnt make sense, thats the reason its faith or belief. belief always has that last leap of faith before it can work as opposed to something based purely on fact.
as an anthropology major here Ive had to study many different religions including pretty much every major religion in the world today plus some that are only in our past and every single one has had that component of having to explain things that cannot be explained. Its purely functional to humanity to have something to explain the unexplainable. Yet this brings up the point of why learn new things if everything can be attributed to "god" or religion or whatever. Its one of those conundrums that noone can explain yet again, but you dont see psychologists or anthropologists blaming our reliance on religion as being gods fault?
Personally, I dont believe that it matters whether any god exists or not. If one does exist it doesnt effect my life in the slightest. I dont see any supernatural being stepping in to make my life any better or worse than it would be according to what ive done for myself. If it doesnt exist, well Nothing is any different than it is right now. Everything comes down to the choices and actions we choose in our one life ( or more depending on your beliefs, but yet again... belief) and we have to do the best with the cards we are dealt as it were.
About the wager. Its not really any wager at all. Who gives any being the right to define my morality, god or not? My morality is between my and myself, noone else. No person, no divine being. And to be perfectly honest Im more likely a better person than most who are religious in any way despite my rough edges. If you cant grow the hell up and find what you think is right or wrong without someone telling you how to do it, you have some really serious problems that are something for another thread entirely.
Religion and belief in god Exist to teach right and wrong. To teach necessary cultural restrictions and other things that are good, however These same things can be learned in many other ways that are now ignored because religion is just easier to follow without really meaning a dang thing.
*disclaimer. This is my personal belief and not directed at any one person or religion.
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Post by Goldmage162 on Nov 14, 2012 12:25:06 GMT -5
I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond to this, but I wanted to formulate a good, well thought out response, and other responsibilities took precedence on my time before I could focus on this. In the interest of brevity, I decided to only respond and evaluate the wager itself, rather then religion as a whole. Anyway, here are my thoughts on Pascal's Wager.
I do not believe Pascal's wager is as ironclad as it may seem. For one, he seems to think that God does not care why you believe, so long as you believe. However, many will tell you that if you only believe in God for self-serving reasons, God will not reward you for it.
In a similar vein, if you "believe" in God only so that you can get possible reward after, are you really believing in God? Or are you simply saying you believe, without any real belief? Don't you think God will know if you really believe or not? All saying you believe accomplishes, when you really don't believe, is convincing other humans of your belief.
Finally, Pascal completely ignores the possible assistance of other or more then one god(s). With other potential gods added to the picture of possibilities, the choice becomes much more complicated then a simple fifty-fifty with a simple obvious choice; raising the question of which god to believe in, all of them having the possibilities of infinite reward and/or punishment if you do or don't believe in them.
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Post by JellyFisk on Nov 14, 2012 12:58:33 GMT -5
I choose not to wager at all.  |
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